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	<title>Comments on: Appreciation</title>
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	<description>The Thoughts Inside Carolyn Ursabia&#039;s Head</description>
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		<title>By: Pretentious, Self-Righteous Essays &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Institution</title>
		<link>http://www.carolynursabia.com/2009/11/appreciation/comment-page-1/#comment-111</link>
		<dc:creator>Pretentious, Self-Righteous Essays &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Institution</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 00:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.carolynursabia.com/?p=284#comment-111</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;ve found that high school, through its [seemingly] arbitrary rules, deadlines, and punishment, gives us a false impression of life afterward.  There is perhaps utility in their enforcement, especially on impressionable youth and adolescents.  However, the truth is, it&#8217;s only ever became increasingly clear to me how institutions are all run by people, and all people have the potential to be very understanding&amp;#... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I&#8217;ve found that high school, through its [seemingly] arbitrary rules, deadlines, and punishment, gives us a false impression of life afterward.  There is perhaps utility in their enforcement, especially on impressionable youth and adolescents.  However, the truth is, it&#8217;s only ever became increasingly clear to me how institutions are all run by people, and all people have the potential to be very understanding&amp;#&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: dennisn</title>
		<link>http://www.carolynursabia.com/2009/11/appreciation/comment-page-1/#comment-42</link>
		<dc:creator>dennisn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 05:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.carolynursabia.com/?p=284#comment-42</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://sites.google.com/site/livingwithoutmoney/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;1) imho, not as funny as your crappy hairdo/waredrome/bed ... but so what -- obviously we have polar opposite tastes. stay on topic, yes?

2) imho, not as sad as [ditto].

3) well, for starters, i recognize that it was an absurd rule. carolyn is still blabbering nonsensically about there being reasons for the uniform -- still somehow managing to rationalize the evilness of forcing me to wear things against my will. although, i suppose we did have the option to just go to a public school, which, again, none of us did. fail. unless, i suppose it&#039;s possible, that you guys /wanted/ to wear those things, in which case, good for you -- the uniform issue is moot for you guys. but, imho, i think most people wore it against their will.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/livingwithoutmoney/" rel="nofollow">1) imho, not as funny as your crappy hairdo/waredrome/bed &#8230; but so what &#8212; obviously we have polar opposite tastes. stay on topic, yes?</p>
<p>2) imho, not as sad as [ditto].</p>
<p>3) well, for starters, i recognize that it was an absurd rule. carolyn is still blabbering nonsensically about there being reasons for the uniform &#8212; still somehow managing to rationalize the evilness of forcing me to wear things against my will. although, i suppose we did have the option to just go to a public school, which, again, none of us did. fail. unless, i suppose it&#8217;s possible, that you guys /wanted/ to wear those things, in which case, good for you &#8212; the uniform issue is moot for you guys. but, imho, i think most people wore it against their will.</a></p>
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		<title>By: daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.carolynursabia.com/2009/11/appreciation/comment-page-1/#comment-41</link>
		<dc:creator>daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 05:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.carolynursabia.com/?p=284#comment-41</guid>
		<description>&gt;Why do you keep pointing those things out?

1) It&#039;s funny 2) Sort of sad 3) Genuine curiosity. I was wondering what it is that you do to &#039;fight&#039; the system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;Why do you keep pointing those things out?</p>
<p>1) It&#8217;s funny 2) Sort of sad 3) Genuine curiosity. I was wondering what it is that you do to &#8216;fight&#8217; the system.</p>
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		<title>By: dennisn</title>
		<link>http://www.carolynursabia.com/2009/11/appreciation/comment-page-1/#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>dennisn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 04:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.carolynursabia.com/?p=284#comment-40</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://sites.google.com/site/livingwithoutmoney/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Why do you keep pointing those things out? Why do you wear your shirt &quot;forward&quot;, cut your hair like most other boring people, and sleep on the same stuff as everyone else?

Anyways, you&#039;re still avoiding the question -- that of allowing evil things to exist, painfully trying to rationalize it (I assume) by saying there were more important battles to fight. (The same way voting for evil Harper might have reduced socialism a bit, but increased evil militarism and prohibition laws.)&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/livingwithoutmoney/" rel="nofollow">Why do you keep pointing those things out? Why do you wear your shirt &#8220;forward&#8221;, cut your hair like most other boring people, and sleep on the same stuff as everyone else?</p>
<p>Anyways, you&#8217;re still avoiding the question &#8212; that of allowing evil things to exist, painfully trying to rationalize it (I assume) by saying there were more important battles to fight. (The same way voting for evil Harper might have reduced socialism a bit, but increased evil militarism and prohibition laws.)</a></p>
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		<title>By: daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.carolynursabia.com/2009/11/appreciation/comment-page-1/#comment-39</link>
		<dc:creator>daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 04:37:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.carolynursabia.com/?p=284#comment-39</guid>
		<description>&gt;and fight to oppose them.

By wearing your shirt backwards (oooooo)? Shaving half your hair (woah!)? Sleeping on the floor (hardcore!!)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;and fight to oppose them.</p>
<p>By wearing your shirt backwards (oooooo)? Shaving half your hair (woah!)? Sleeping on the floor (hardcore!!)?</p>
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		<title>By: dennisn</title>
		<link>http://www.carolynursabia.com/2009/11/appreciation/comment-page-1/#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>dennisn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 04:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.carolynursabia.com/?p=284#comment-37</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://sites.google.com/site/livingwithoutmoney/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;How am I passing my test now? Well, I realize the evilness and absurdity of uniforms, and marijuana legislation, and countless other such evils, and fight to oppose them. You? When your kids go to school, are you going to let them get similarly abused?&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/livingwithoutmoney/" rel="nofollow">How am I passing my test now? Well, I realize the evilness and absurdity of uniforms, and marijuana legislation, and countless other such evils, and fight to oppose them. You? When your kids go to school, are you going to let them get similarly abused?</a></p>
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		<title>By: daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.carolynursabia.com/2009/11/appreciation/comment-page-1/#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator>daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.carolynursabia.com/?p=284#comment-36</guid>
		<description>&gt;We all failed

We? *You* failed. You are clearly trying to overcompensate now because you were _THE_ biggest keener in high-school. Uniform nicely tucked in? Check. Homework done everyday? Check. Suck up to every teacher and do whatever they want you to do? Check. Extracurriculars? Check. No unexplained absences? Check. Need I go on? Don&#039;t try to make it about anybody but you. *You* failed the arbitrary &#039;test&#039; you came up with after you flunked Eng Sci (not dropped out, flunked out - there&#039;s a difference). I get it, it makes you feel better if we all join you in failure. But sorry, yousa on your own.

And how are you passing your test now? By wearing your shirt backwards (oooooo)? Shaving half your hair (woah!)? Sleeping on the floor (hardcore!!)? 

Keep showing society how free you are, and how big of a backbone you have (unless of course you get called on it by some stranger at a party, in which case you&#039;ll become the meekest, most shy, hardcore, badass there is).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;We all failed</p>
<p>We? *You* failed. You are clearly trying to overcompensate now because you were _THE_ biggest keener in high-school. Uniform nicely tucked in? Check. Homework done everyday? Check. Suck up to every teacher and do whatever they want you to do? Check. Extracurriculars? Check. No unexplained absences? Check. Need I go on? Don&#8217;t try to make it about anybody but you. *You* failed the arbitrary &#8216;test&#8217; you came up with after you flunked Eng Sci (not dropped out, flunked out &#8211; there&#8217;s a difference). I get it, it makes you feel better if we all join you in failure. But sorry, yousa on your own.</p>
<p>And how are you passing your test now? By wearing your shirt backwards (oooooo)? Shaving half your hair (woah!)? Sleeping on the floor (hardcore!!)? </p>
<p>Keep showing society how free you are, and how big of a backbone you have (unless of course you get called on it by some stranger at a party, in which case you&#8217;ll become the meekest, most shy, hardcore, badass there is).</p>
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		<title>By: Carolyn</title>
		<link>http://www.carolynursabia.com/2009/11/appreciation/comment-page-1/#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>Carolyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 13:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.carolynursabia.com/?p=284#comment-35</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;dissonance going on in your head. How could forceful habiliment of people be both “not good” and “reasonable”

I hesitated to call them &quot;good&quot; reasons because they were debatable.  That doesn&#039;t necessarily make them &quot;bad reasons&quot;.  That only makes it a &quot;weak argument&quot;.  To be a &quot;bad argument&quot;, the argument [in favour of uniforms] would have had to have been fallacious.  A lot of the typical points put forward in favour of them are debatable.  Thus, it can be said that they are reasonable (even if not by myself).  Your incapability to see that is indicative of your incapability to reason.

&gt;&gt;I don’t know anyone who refused to submit, on principle

Poor argument.  Just because you didn&#039;t personally know them doesn&#039;t mean that they didn&#039;t and don&#039;t exist.  Check high school records. They were the delinquents who were in detention, and often not in class.  They were the students who ditched, got suspended, were rarely around, and were most likely NOT in our enriched/advanced classes.  They were the ones who saw no value in the system, left or failed out of it, and were confident and happy about it.  They&#039;re real Dennis.  A lot of people did not finish high school because they considered it b.s., and then went on to lead happy lives, abhorrent of authority, cognizant of its flaws and their actions were indeed completely &quot;out of principle&quot;.  They apparently reside outside of your view.  I&#039;ll introduce you to a few.  You weren&#039;t social - I am not surprised you didn&#039;t know them then and that you don&#039;t remember them now.  Their population only increased in numbers since (i.e. dropout rates in Ontario high schools have increased since the education reforms).


&gt;&gt;The system is not some abstract distant thing

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNz4O2DDEOM&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Sure, but your &quot;testers&quot; are.  You&#039;ve drawn up battles lines in your head and have pitted yourself against the world because in every corner there exist sets of arbitrary rules to which people are subject.  Your definition of oppression puts all of humanity at all times under it.  You&#039;ve defined it in such a way that you can never escape it.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>>>dissonance going on in your head. How could forceful habiliment of people be both “not good” and “reasonable”</p>
<p>I hesitated to call them &#8220;good&#8221; reasons because they were debatable.  That doesn&#8217;t necessarily make them &#8220;bad reasons&#8221;.  That only makes it a &#8220;weak argument&#8221;.  To be a &#8220;bad argument&#8221;, the argument [in favour of uniforms] would have had to have been fallacious.  A lot of the typical points put forward in favour of them are debatable.  Thus, it can be said that they are reasonable (even if not by myself).  Your incapability to see that is indicative of your incapability to reason.</p>
<p>>>I don’t know anyone who refused to submit, on principle</p>
<p>Poor argument.  Just because you didn&#8217;t personally know them doesn&#8217;t mean that they didn&#8217;t and don&#8217;t exist.  Check high school records. They were the delinquents who were in detention, and often not in class.  They were the students who ditched, got suspended, were rarely around, and were most likely NOT in our enriched/advanced classes.  They were the ones who saw no value in the system, left or failed out of it, and were confident and happy about it.  They&#8217;re real Dennis.  A lot of people did not finish high school because they considered it b.s., and then went on to lead happy lives, abhorrent of authority, cognizant of its flaws and their actions were indeed completely &#8220;out of principle&#8221;.  They apparently reside outside of your view.  I&#8217;ll introduce you to a few.  You weren&#8217;t social &#8211; I am not surprised you didn&#8217;t know them then and that you don&#8217;t remember them now.  Their population only increased in numbers since (i.e. dropout rates in Ontario high schools have increased since the education reforms).</p>
<p>>>The system is not some abstract distant thing</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNz4O2DDEOM" rel="nofollow">Sure, but your &#8220;testers&#8221; are.  You&#8217;ve drawn up battles lines in your head and have pitted yourself against the world because in every corner there exist sets of arbitrary rules to which people are subject.  Your definition of oppression puts all of humanity at all times under it.  You&#8217;ve defined it in such a way that you can never escape it.</a></p>
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		<title>By: dennisn</title>
		<link>http://www.carolynursabia.com/2009/11/appreciation/comment-page-1/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>dennisn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 13:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.carolynursabia.com/?p=284#comment-34</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://sites.google.com/site/livingwithoutmoney/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;It&#039;s a little disturbing to see the cognitive dissonance going on in your head. How could forceful habiliment of people be both &quot;not good&quot; and &quot;reasonable&quot;. Sigh. (Not to mention the more subtle evil effects that it does to individuality.) It was absolutely wrong and absolutely unreasonable and anyone with any kind of backbone would not have bent himself over for them. (Tucking your shirt out does not count. I don&#039;t know anyone who refused to submit, on principle. I think you&#039;re still living in fantasy land.) We all failed.

The test was not on the level of any particular administrator. In fact, they were also being tested in the exact same way. And they all failed too. They bent over and presented their asses, so they could keep their comfy jobs. One would have hoped that as adults their backbones would have matured. Clearly this does not happen very easily.

How do you figure such absurd oppression will get abolished if all you clever rationalizers &quot;pick the battle&quot; of grades and jobs over principles? I can&#039;t help but feel you LIKE to be oppressed -- just a little. A kind of submission-fetish. The system is not some abstract distant thing -- it&#039;s you, and a few teachers -- none of who wanted to take the red pill.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://sites.google.com/site/livingwithoutmoney/" rel="nofollow">It&#8217;s a little disturbing to see the cognitive dissonance going on in your head. How could forceful habiliment of people be both &#8220;not good&#8221; and &#8220;reasonable&#8221;. Sigh. (Not to mention the more subtle evil effects that it does to individuality.) It was absolutely wrong and absolutely unreasonable and anyone with any kind of backbone would not have bent himself over for them. (Tucking your shirt out does not count. I don&#8217;t know anyone who refused to submit, on principle. I think you&#8217;re still living in fantasy land.) We all failed.</p>
<p>The test was not on the level of any particular administrator. In fact, they were also being tested in the exact same way. And they all failed too. They bent over and presented their asses, so they could keep their comfy jobs. One would have hoped that as adults their backbones would have matured. Clearly this does not happen very easily.</p>
<p>How do you figure such absurd oppression will get abolished if all you clever rationalizers &#8220;pick the battle&#8221; of grades and jobs over principles? I can&#8217;t help but feel you LIKE to be oppressed &#8212; just a little. A kind of submission-fetish. The system is not some abstract distant thing &#8212; it&#8217;s you, and a few teachers &#8212; none of who wanted to take the red pill.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Carolyn</title>
		<link>http://www.carolynursabia.com/2009/11/appreciation/comment-page-1/#comment-33</link>
		<dc:creator>Carolyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 01:53:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.carolynursabia.com/?p=284#comment-33</guid>
		<description>There are a lot of reasons why schools have uniforms.  I hesitate to call any of them &quot;good&quot;, but they&#039;re reasonable.  

&gt;&gt;a test to see whether we could break free from evil and absurd legislation

If anything, this would only be at the level of any particular administrator&#039;s.  i.e.  a teacher might feel this way and test us, but it&#039;s certainly not the reason why those who impose the rules do it in the first place.

In the cases where it was a test [by a teacher], then we did not all fail.  Not all students were sheep.  There existed students who did not wear their uniforms.  Some of these students liked to revolt out of an incapability to take direction.  Others did so because they [rightfully] questioned authority and so did not succeed in the system to which they were subject (what you wish you were then, but are now in adulthood).  There existed even fewer especially rare students who picked and chose their battles, aware of the arbitrariness of the rules to which they were subject, and wore their uniforms (this is me then and now as an adult).  

&gt;&gt;In precisely the same way, we accept evil and absurd oppression today in our adult lives

Yes, in precisely this same way, yes.  In high school, your were part of the flock, and I see that in retrospect you wish you weren&#039;t.

Such are the systems to which you have been subject.  Either continue and comply, or find a way out.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a lot of reasons why schools have uniforms.  I hesitate to call any of them &#8220;good&#8221;, but they&#8217;re reasonable.  </p>
<p>>>a test to see whether we could break free from evil and absurd legislation</p>
<p>If anything, this would only be at the level of any particular administrator&#8217;s.  i.e.  a teacher might feel this way and test us, but it&#8217;s certainly not the reason why those who impose the rules do it in the first place.</p>
<p>In the cases where it was a test [by a teacher], then we did not all fail.  Not all students were sheep.  There existed students who did not wear their uniforms.  Some of these students liked to revolt out of an incapability to take direction.  Others did so because they [rightfully] questioned authority and so did not succeed in the system to which they were subject (what you wish you were then, but are now in adulthood).  There existed even fewer especially rare students who picked and chose their battles, aware of the arbitrariness of the rules to which they were subject, and wore their uniforms (this is me then and now as an adult).  </p>
<p>>>In precisely the same way, we accept evil and absurd oppression today in our adult lives</p>
<p>Yes, in precisely this same way, yes.  In high school, your were part of the flock, and I see that in retrospect you wish you weren&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Such are the systems to which you have been subject.  Either continue and comply, or find a way out.</p>
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